Ethics. Options

[Stacy Flowers]

Kevin S., from 9 A., Gf, MA? That Kevin?

[GuyInIndiana]

Rogers or Smith... still getting the background work done to find that out.

For the person who PM'd me... *57 (star 57) is what you dial after receiving obscene or harassing phone calls to register that number with YOUR local phone company. It does NOT matter if they block you from seeing who they are. That data is still transmitted to your phone provider and recorded even if you can't see it. After 3 <?> of those get recorded over a period of time, it obligates your phone company to investigate and pursue action against that number. Generally, there's a small fee involved each time it's used, but it's highly effective and worth it.

[Susan]

Are you able to contact the phone company and get the number and info of the person harassing or does it have to be after the 3 (or however many) *57s have occurred?

[GuyInIndiana]

It seems to vary from state to state (and phone provider), yet it's the FCC and federal laws, as I 'understand' it, that allow for legal enforcement. I can only guess that if a person were to have to take it to the point of the phone company sending information to a L.E. agency, they'd have to do at least a few interviews with whoever made the complaint and during those processes, you would certainly be finding out something relevant.

When I had to pursue that avenue many years back, I only got to the 'second reporting' of a number that kept calling at night and making vague threats and would then hang up. It never got to the full-blown phase of the phone company having to get involved.

In this case, having the guy's number in the first place, well, pretty hard to hide from anyone at that point, ya' know?

And then acknowledging at JREF that he and Melissa have been exchanging information back and forth for some time, well, play with fire, you get burned.

[Stacy Flowers]

Are you able to contact the phone company and get the number and info of the person harassing...

Already done.... my post at the top of this page is to let him know that we have his real name and address.

[Susan]

I knew you had his name and address, just wondered if it was through Mike's "*57 pushing" that you got it.

[Stacy Flowers]

Nope, his cell # showed right up on the phone when he called and it was a quick and simple process to find out who the number was registered to and his address.

[forestguy]

We have been getting feedback from many scattered parts of the country, which is what we hoped we would see.

Hey Nightwing - this is the exciting bit for me, actually hearing that you're getting some validation and confirmation - I know most of you have shut up shop publicly (fair enough) but is there going to be any analysis done of the feedback you've been getting, eg: which vocals in partic. seem to be showing up most often, a geographic comparison, etc? And if there is, will it be released? (Pushing my luck, I know...)

Thanks,
FG

[Jay]

And then acknowledging at JREF that he and Melissa have been exchanging information back and forth for some time, well, play with fire, you get burned.

Yep, and to go along with that, when you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.

[Nightwing]

We have been getting feedback from many scattered parts of the country, which is what we hoped we would see.

Hey Nightwing - this is the exciting bit for me, actually hearing that you're getting some validation and confirmation - I know most of you have shut up shop publicly (fair enough) but is there going to be any analysis done of the feedback you've been getting, eg: which vocals in partic. seem to be showing up most often, a geographic comparison, etc? And if there is, will it be released? (Pushing my luck, I know...)

Thanks,
FG

FG, that's difficult to say, as so far, what we've gotten is feedback from individuals(some of whom have posted independent of our project), who say they have also heard sounds similar, and in some cases, Identical, to ours. To be honest, I personally feel that given our experience, it has to be up to those other people to pursue analysis on their own should they wish to do so. On our end, we will continue to look into any potential methods of extracting additional information from our recordings and certainly hope to perhaps gain further insight into the required anatomy to produce those sounds.
As far as a release of additional info on a public basis..., no, that's very unlikely, unfortunately.
A sad footnote to that last comment is the fact that this curtailing of public sharing and cross-referencing is certainly not going to be limited only to ourselves.

[forestguy]

Cool banannas - thanks NW.

Cheers,
FG

[Mulder]

Yep.

Although, I have to admit I'm still pretty self-righteously indignant about the fact that when you've tried to do everything right, tried to share in as forthright a manner as possible, given the fact that you've all signed non-disclosure agreements, none of that matters when you bring a little bit of it to the world wide web. Because the rules are different here. Even though you're trying to protect your witness and can't divulge all, because you can't divulge all, suddenly you're considered to be being hoaxed or are accused of having knowledge of a hoax, or it's suggested that your integrity is in question, or you may even be lying. WTF?

So it all comes back down to the same conclusion. Do NOT talk about your ongoing research work AT ALL on any website or public forum, because you will deeply regret it. It doesn't matter if you're protecting your witness/landowner. It doesn't matter if your group continues to adhere to their good judgment when assessing an active location. Because no one will believe that you have a brain in your head .... because they weren't there themselves to witness it. They, and I mean every Tom, Dick and Harriett with an opinion and a keyboard under their fingertips, will feel compelled to give their two cents worth whether they know jackshit or not about it. They will also feel compelled to spread rumours, gossip, false information, innuendo and outright lies about you and your group in order to satisfy some lingering hatred they have for you ... or just for the hellovit .... justifying it with claims of "getting at the truth".

And when your patience gets the better of you, after trying for 40 some odd pages to answer every inane, ridiculous question, until it finally gets completely off the wall ... and a few of you can't hold back but have to address the jerks in the only way they'll understand ... then you get accused by some of being no better than others who have gone before you.

Hogwash, I say. Stand in our shoes for 3 months and see how it feels to be attacked from all quarters when you don't deserve it. We've done nothing wrong. On the other hand, there have been many many people who HAVE behaved in a deplorable manner .... as Jay said, many of whom had to go plan another Texas conference, and were "overjoyed" to see another thread opened about the recordings, so they could jump on for another feeding frenzy. Ah yes, all very professional. Because there's such a spirit of sharing in this "community".

We've done nothing wrong .... except offer some new recordings to the bigfooting community that are interesting. We never made any grandiose claims about them. You can be assured that we did and always will keep a skeptical eye open at all times while on the property. But the way we've been treated, it's like suddenly no one knows us anymore. Somehow everyone seems to have forgotten that we're actually smart, capable, skeptical and always suspicious of what's going on around us. It's why we work so well as a team.

Ah who cares anyway. We do, and that's all that matters.

"Do NOT talk about your ongoing research work AT ALL on any website or public forum, because you will deeply regret it."

Speaking from experience, I agree

"And when your patience gets the better of you, after trying for 40 some odd pages to answer every inane, ridiculous question, until it finally gets completely off the wall ... and a few of you can't hold back but have to address the jerks in the only way they'll understand ... then you get accused by some of being no better than others who have gone before you."

Happens far too often

" Stand in our shoes for 3 months and see how it feels to be attacked from all quarters when you don't deserve it."

I have, even worse, and it wasn't fun. Try watching your kids cry when they come home from school only to watch grown ups make them cry again while watching the evening news... I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said Pat, great post...

Been there, done that. Didn't want a damn T shirt.

On the one hand, I see both your points, but on the other, I have to ask: what good does it do to amass rooms full of evidence, casts, recordings, etc if in the end it isn't USED to further the documentation of the BF as a species? You could say "it's for my own pleasure/information/whatever", and I suppose that would be an acceptable answer, but isn't the larger issue of documenting BF of greater significance than any one person or groups ezxclusive edification?

[GuyInIndiana]

but isn't the larger issue of documenting BF of greater significance than any one person or groups ezxclusive edification?

I honestly don't know? Everyone's reasons for doing lots of things, is always widely varied.

I'm concluding more and more, the species is better off with us NOT knowing about them. They may have a chance to survive.

"Man" is the least ethical animal on planet earth.

[Pat B.]

On the one hand, I see both your points, but on the other, I have to ask: what good does it do to amass rooms full of evidence, casts, recordings, etc if in the end it isn't USED to further the documentation of the BF as a species? You could say "it's for my own pleasure/information/whatever", and I suppose that would be an acceptable answer, but isn't the larger issue of documenting BF of greater significance than any one person or groups ezxclusive edification?

The point I was making was, don't bring your evidence to a public message board. If you have evidence, it should be taken to scientists for testing and documentation. I wasn't advocating for hoarding information, just not sharing it in this type of venue.

[Mulder]

On the one hand, I see both your points, but on the other, I have to ask: what good does it do to amass rooms full of evidence, casts, recordings, etc if in the end it isn't USED to further the documentation of the BF as a species? You could say "it's for my own pleasure/information/whatever", and I suppose that would be an acceptable answer, but isn't the larger issue of documenting BF of greater significance than any one person or groups ezxclusive edification?

The point I was making was, don't bring your evidence to a public message board. If you have evidence, it should be taken to scientists for testing and documentation. I wasn't advocating for hoarding information, just not sharing it in this type of venue.

I see. Thanks for clarifying. Would you visit a fora such as this once you had "lab certified" results?

[Pat B.]

A forum such as this one ... yes. Others ... probably not.

[GuyInIndiana]

I just thought I'd bump this back up since some of the blogs are dedicating their space to a topic, near and dear to our hearts.

Oddly, many in the bigfooting field speculate, create supposition, and "guess" that something is true or 'must be this way' based on someone else's speculation, suppositions and guesses. Then go on to state some downright funny things which shows you how far off from the truth they are. They quote people who've made 'statements' assuming they were accurate, without even bothering to find out the person didn't really know anything about what they were talking about. They just keep repeating what someone else 'thinks might be the case' and then conclude what is "the truth".

I appreciate the downright funny irony of it all. If someone told them what "the truth is"... well, they wouldn't know it if it was handed to them on a silver platter... and that makes it all worth it.

Ethics. LoL