John Green & Bob Gimlin to address "Massacre at Bluff Creek", on Larry Battson's Wild World Options

[Spazmo]

Hi Folks-
Larry Battson is going to have John Green and Bob Gimlin on his internet radio show, "Larry Battson's Wild World".

The topic: M.K. Davis' "Massacre at Bluff Creek".

It airs on Thursday, November 5th at 11pm eastern time at: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Larry-Battson

I spoke with Larry on the phone a few minutes ago, and this sounds like his biggest and most important show to date.

S.

[Mulder]

Any chance of a transcript, or at least quotes of key points?

[windtalker]

I don't know about a transcript but I know this;
Maybe 7-8 years ago or so when I still frequented Paltalk, M.K. and a few others from the GCBRO would come into our room and shoot the breeze.
M.K. had posted a link to some things he was working on and I recall looking at them.
These were pics from the Patty film of course and he was excited about them as usual.
All I saw were blobs myself and asked what they were supposed to be of.
M.K. himself stated they were from places on Patty and led me and others in the room to believe they might be gunshot wounds.
The pics if I recall correctly were from a place on her back and another on her thigh.
I myself took it with a grain of salt.
My feelings are if those who can afford high dollar software that is the very best the market has to offer can't get a decent clear close up of Patty's face, how can M.K. get enough of a close up to see a gunshot wound from the same copy of an old 8 mm film?
Anyone who has fooled with trying to enhance pics for any length of time knows that when you fool around enough you create your own anomalies.
Btw, no I don't have anything against M.K. or any axes to grind.
I do think though he's pretty much exhausted the Patty film and is a bit obsessed with it.

[Grazhopprr]

Considering the prints he's using are from a copy of a copy of a Rene's touring film, spliced bits and pieces of material from several films, I'm surprised that MK can see anything of what he's saying is there. Like windtalker said, if you play with a print long enough, you'll create you're own anamolies to have fun with, and write a whole set of fantasies to go along with it. The originals of all these films, are 40 years old, and like the Zapruder film, need to be totallly digitized, to save the frames one by one, or soon it will be too late, and they will fall apart in your hands. They may end up being more important, that the Zapruder film. Someone needs to save them, to argue against junk science like MK and others are pushing. Where are the rich benefactors when you need them?

[Pat B.]

Over the past couple of days, I've transcribed the whole interview. I can post it here, if you'd like.

Edited to add: And I must say, it's very interesting, particularly in light of all the mudslinging and craziness that have been going around lately.

This post has been edited by Pat B.: Nov 17 2009, 06:14 PM

[windtalker]

I'd like to see it if it wouldn't be a big deal.
I'm curious myself as to what was actually said and what wasn't.

[Pat B.]

Larry Battson’s Wild World – Nov. 5, 2009 Interview with Bob Gimlin and John Green

Discussion of the M.K. Davis Massacre Theory:

Blog talk Radio Intro –

Larry – Hello everyone from the remote jungles of Clintin Falls, Indiana, Harrison Hot Springs, British Columbia and Yakima, Washington. This is Larry Battson and welcome to my wild world, and what a special, special program we have tonight. This is going to be um, this is going to be a whole lot of fun. You know for 31 years I’ve travelled all over the country doing wildlife lectures with my wild animals and I’ve always had a keen interest in a legendary creature that supposably [sic] exists in the wilds of northern California, Oregon and Washington, throughout the United States, the legend of bigfoot or sasquatch. And tonight right here on blogtalk radio we have the … all I can say is both of these gentlemen are legendary. The first one, a journalist, written several books on the subject, fact the one that I’ve always kind of considered the bible of bigfoot, Sasquatch the Apes Among Us, from Harrison Hot Springs, British Columbia, the legendary, and really a nice guy (laughs), Mr. John Green. Hi John.

John – Hi Larry.

Larry – (laughs) Hey, uh thanks for joining us tonight. This is quite a privilege.

John – Well, glad to be with you.

Larry – I’m .. we’re glad you’re here. This is going to be fantastic. And tonight you know, usually we call this the uh Patterson/Gimlin film, but not tonight. Oh no, it’s the Gimlin/Patterson film. Fifty percent of the best bigfoot/sasquatch evidence ever recorded from Yakima, Washington, and folks, you’re in for a treat because he doesn’t do this very ofer .. often. Mr. Robert Gimlin. Hello Bob.

Bob – Hello there Larry. Hey uh thank ya Larry for having me aboard. Sure appreciate it and we’ll do the best we can here tonight. Now I’m sure with John aboard we’ll get it taken care of thoroughly.

Larry – Absolutely, absolutely. You know, uh, why I think it was three years ago, I was talking to John and to Bob. Do you remember we were going to try to make it out that way and do a documentary about uh, well it was going to be the forty years since the Gimlin/Patterson film was shot and uh, Robert was so kind, he was going to come down from Yakima, Washington, with three horses and the three of us were going to ride back into the Bluff Creek area, as close to the film site as we could determine, and build a campfire and talk about that, that day in 1967 when Robert Gimlin and Roger Patterson were lucky enough to get on film for a few seconds a, a sasquatch. And you know, I was really looking forward to that. And you, you got ill right after that Bob.

Bob – Yeah, oh yeah. That was my uh, was my job with the horses, or what you might call it was uh you might call it the job or for pleasure or fun or whatever it is but you know with these horses with big animals like that uh don’t always do what a person thinks that they should do. Uh sometimes you get a few injuries and I’ve had my share of em over the years, but um, you know I would never change it so … uh I deal with horses everyday and, and consequently uh I do get a few broken bones now and then and a few bruised spots, but I enjoy it, you know. I enjoy the horses and what you can teach em and get em so that other people can use em to their advantage for pleasure or whatever they want to do with em you know.

Larry – Well you know, we were talking the other night. I work with wild animals and I’ve also worked with horses and horses are nothing but work.

Bob – They are definitely a lot of work. And if ya don’t enjoy it uh ya shouldn’t do it I reckon because uh you know I have people all the time, you know they have a whole system that they don’t understand, some they don’t enjoy it so, I just, I tell me, why don’t you just get a motorcycle or a scooter or something like that. But they, they like to be able to uh uh have a live creature that they can pet and call their own and see if they can dominate it. I think that’s probably some of the answers to some of this deal, you know of the horse people that they don’t understand. Anyway that’s, I like horses, I deal with em, and I understand them pretty good.

Larry – John, do you remember the first time that you met uh uh Bob Gimlin?

John – Oh sure. Uh, the first public showing of his movie was at the University of British Columbia. And uh I’d seen it at Roger’s brother-in-law’s house, but uh Roger just arrived from California and Bob had had to I guess head off to look after his horses. Anyway, he wasn’t there. So the first time I met Bob was when he came up to Vancouver to, when they were showing the movie there.

Larry – How many uh people were in the room when that movie was, was shown at the University of British Columbia?

John – Uh, 25, 35, 40 … something like that. And then there was a more public showing later.

Larry – Uh, is it correct that Bob Titmus was in that room as well?

John – Oh yes.

Larry – My understanding, well my conversations with him is that when he saw the movie that he thought that this was all over. That that was it, that was the prime piece of evidence. There it was. Did you get that impression from him?

John – I don’t recall .. but uh you know he might well think that.

Larry – He was, he was pretty uh … now the scientists, there were scientists in the room, correct?

John – Yes.

Larry – How many times do you think that they sat there and watched the film?

John – Well it was run through several times. Uh … there was really only, only one top zoologist there. And he continued to be sceptical.

Larry – Hmm. Did uh, that um … so did you think from the very beginning that was kind of going to kill the deal, that no one was going to believe that the film Robert and Roger put to … that they had … uh I don’t want to say put together the film, uh … was a hoax?
John – Uh, what I remember is that uh … Rene Dahinden and I were concerned that uh, Roger not take off and go trotting around with the film, showing it to people. That he should insist on them coming uh to see him and to see the film. Because uh, you know, uh Yakima’s cowboy country and that’s, that’s the way that uh Roger was dressed and uh we were well aware that he wasn’t going to be taken seriously at the Smithsonian or the American Museum, places like that. Whereas if they met him on his home ground it would be different.

Larry – Absolutely.

John – However, that advice wasn’t taken, and uh, the advice we failed to give him … cause we didn’t know any better is to quit running the film through a cheap projector and scratching it. I mean, you should never run an original film of that importance at all. You know, just get copies off it, but we didn’t know those things.

Larry – Did … who, who made the decision, Bob, who was going to be the camera man that day? Did Roger always have the camera, or is that …

Bob – Well, yes. There was, there was not a decision at all, ‘cause I didn’t have anything to do with cameras. Uh, basically I was the horse person there. I, uh, Roger had … he was riding his horse. You know I was just there to, to help Roger, whatever, whatever needed to be done, and my, my point was … or reason that I was down there … was Roger asked me to take him down there. And I had the equipment to take him down there with the truck and, and, and you know, the means to get him down there. And so Roger had the camera with him all the time. I … I never carried the camera ever, cause I don’t even , I don’t even take pictures to this day with cameras, so … and I know very little bit about cameras, uh so consequently Roger had had this camera, I assume, ah quite a while before he went down there.

Larry – Did um, hmmm … Here’s a question. Is, is there times since that film has been made that you had wished that when Roger was changing that film after he had just uh filmed the sasquatch that maybe his jack would have fallen off of his lap and it had been exposed and everything there would never have been a Roger Patterson/Bob Gimlin film?

Bob – Well, you know, I never thought anything about it, because I, you know, everything was happening so rapidly at that point in time and I wanted to go on and see which way the creature went and, and, and just see it again, you know, but Roger didn’t want me to leave because he wasn’t sure uh, there was this one and the footprints about 3 miles from where this was at, at that tank that they put in the fresh dirt, there was 3 different sizes of footprints, so he told me later the reason he didn’t want me to leave was ‘cause he didn’t know whether the other two was in the area and he didn’t have a horse so to get his horse caught up before we went to go ahead and follow which way the thing, the creature went, he wanted to have his horse. So that’s what that was kind of all about.

Larry – What, what was your … okay what was your impression when you first saw this thing?

Bob – Well, my first impression was that, yeah these things really do exist, because up until that point I wasn’t a total skeptic or I wouldn’t have been down there but I’d never seen uh, uh footprints in the dirt or in the soil of any type. The only things that I had seen was plaster casts that Roger had shown me and little cassette tapes that he had played of different people that either had minor encounters with ‘em or had cast footprints. So consequently I just was not sure that they existed. Uh, I knew they must exist, but I wasn’t, you know I was kind of show me … show me and I will believe it. So when this thing was standing there by the creek, I thought, oh my God, they really do exist. And even at that point in time, you wonder, just so many things go through your mind so rapidly about it, and of course it was moving away from us just, just immediately. And you wonder, well, just there’s so many things you know that happened so quick and it didn’t, it wasn’t that long that Roger said, ah, I’m out of film. You know and so then, then we thought, I thought well he probably didn’t get anything anyway because he kind of stumbled and fell as he run across the creek. And he didn’t, he wasn’t even sure if he got any good film footage of it.

Larry – Who was closer to it, you or Roger?

Bob – Roger was closest to it at the beginning, cause he was riding in front of me.

Larry – Mm hmm. What now … did you get a good look at the face?

Bob – Well a fairly good look. Yeah, cause it was lookin at us or it was lookin across our way when I first saw it. And then when it turned and walked away, and then one time when I got, rode across the creek and got down off the horse it turned in stride and looked back at me so I saw you know part … part of the face and pretty much most of it.

Larry – Your impressions … was it, was it more human-like or ape-like?

Bob – Oh, I thought it was human-like, the way its muscle movement … I had seen you know primates in the zoos and so forth, but I’d never seen anything like that before. And the muscle mass that it had and walking upright like a human, it was uh, in my opinion, was more human-like than animal-like.

Larry – John, how, how much after the fact, after they filmed this did you get down to Bluff Creek?

John – I wasn’t able to go there til the following year.

Larry – ‘Kay.

John – Bob Titmus went down there pretty much right away. And uh Jim McClaren was in there that fall also. Time I got there you could still see a few of the footprints, but ...

Larry – After that long?

John – Yeah, oh yeah.

Larry – Wow.

John – Well, you know, they didn’t have any good shape, but you could see where the thing had been striding along. But unfortunately uh … the area that’s the best part of the film, well I guess those are, would be among the footprints that Bob Titmus cast. See between him and Roger, at least a dozen footprints were cast, and so they were wiped out.

Larry – The ah … and Bob got down there what, seven eight days after uh, uh Bob and Roger were there?

John – Uh, it might have been even a little longer. Cause he didn’t go down there until after he’d seen the film in Vancouver.

Larry– Now, if I’m not mistaken, Bob, uh, that night you guys were still camping in the area?

Bob – Yes, yeah we was camping in the same area that we camped in when we first got there.

Larry – And you … and and there was a storm coming in? You just decided to go back and cover the footprints up?

Bob – Yeah, uh yes it was, it started raining just early in the morning and uh uh, I don’t remember the exact time but I’d say around 4 o’clock because it was still, still dark when I got, you know in October it doesn’t get light ‘til about 6:30 or 7, so it was still dark when I went out to saddle the horse and, and started to ride up there, you know to get the bark off the trees to cover some of those footprints. Well originally, I had got cardboard boxes from uh Al Hodgson’s variety store on our way back. And I say on our way back, that was from where I took Roger over there til it gets down an up there to D’atley. So I picked up quite a few cardboard boxes. And when we got back there, it was early, you know probably 10 or so in the evening and maybe a little bit later. It was a full moon, full just like a big old harvest moon, and then when I heard that start sprinkling on top of the truck, that rain, I said .. I, I got up and shook Roger’s foot and I said, “Hey, it’s starting to rain. We gotta do something about them tracks.“ And he said “Ah, it don’t, it ain’t gonna rain Bob.” He said “it’s clear sky last night, remember that moon?” I said, “Well yeah, we set and talked for quite a long time after we got back and it was clear.” So then I laid back down for a few minutes, then the rain started coming down pretty good. So I said, “Hey, Roger.” And he went back to snoring and sleeping more ... (Larry laughing) ... and I thought, Goddang, this guy can sleep through anything (Larry and John laughing) … you know we were tired, we were really tired, but I thought God this, I gotta do something about this, you know. So I got up, went outside and that I had laid those cardboard boxes outside of the truck when we went in to go to bed that night. Uh Roger was sleeping up in the overshot that goes out over cab and I was sleeping down on the, on the bed, you know the bed, cause the bed of the truck was 11 ft by 7 ft wide. Anyway uh, so I got up and looked at them cardboard boxes and they were just sogs, you know they got wet and I knew there was no sense in even trying to fold any of them up. So I didn’t even know what I was going to do for sure. But I knew that there was some dead trees up there. And so I thought well I’ll go ride up there and figure out something. Then I got up there and I just started pulling the bark of them trees the best I could and covering as many tracks as I could before it really started raining. You know, really coming down. B’time I got back down to the truck it was really coming down big time. And then of course it was getting daylight by then and that creek we were across, we were on the foreside of the creek, and the creek that normally was like 18, 20 inches deep, and 3 or 4 feet across, it was almost it was over about 2 foot deep and about 8, 10 feet across. So it was coming down not um … it was coming down off them hills, you know, the rain was, the water was coming down off them hills rapidly and I knew I had to get on the other side of that creek with that truck cause it was just a 2 wheel drive, 2 wheel drive uh dually truck. And so I did.

Larry – Did you have any uh …

Bob – That’s what …

Larry – Go ahead.

Bob - Scuse me … that’s how, how come I went up to cover the tracks.

Larry – Did you have any apprehension of going back there to cover those tracks up in the dark, after you had seen the ... the sasquatch that day? Or did it even enter your mind?

Bob – Well, no, not really because …

Larry - That’s the cowboy in ya. (Larry laughing)

Bob - … You know I was still just kind of amazed at what happened that day, and, and I’m not much of a guy to, to chicken out on things. See I’ve always been kind of a daring person all my life and I guess it kind of shows when the chips are down whether a guy’s gonna be able to get something done or not and that was my main thought. Because Roger had called … uh the track people that had track dogs up in Canada to come down there uh and so I figured if they didn’t have anything to check out and go by then, then there wasn’t going to be any tracking at all. And so that was my first response to that. That uh something had to be, had to be able to be shown, so that there’s evidence there to get them dogs goin or whatever they had to do, cause I didn’t know anything about these track dogs. I didn’t know who the guy was that had em. Bit uh, he had … Roger told me when he called earlier that evening from, from Al’s place, Al’s store down there that this guy, I think the guy’s name was McCauley or something like that, he, he maintained that these dogs would track anything anywhere and said that they were German shepherd breed. Well I never knew that much about German shepherd dogs. See I figured they had to be a bloodhound or, or a scent hound of some type. But this, this gentleman had told Roger that these dogs would track anything anywhere as long as he put em on the scent. And so therefore I knew that I had to do something about these tracks or what I figured. I didn’t know much about track dogs or anything like that. But also figured if, if they’re gonna have anything to go by, they gotta, they gotta see something.

Larry – So uh how did they … did they finally arrive? How did they do?

John – No, no they …

Bob – Well they … well …

Larry – Go ahead

Bob – No go ahead John, tell it … talk, cause he, John knows way more about that than I do.

Larry – Okay

John – Yeah, I, I was the one that got McCauley to come down to California with the dog when there were some tracks on Onion Mountain back at the end of August back here.

Bob – Oh. Okay, see I didn’t know that.

John – Yeah, and uh … the dog couldn’t do anything with those tracks. They were too old. And, and then …

Bob – Oh, okay.

John – And then I got a call on the day after we got back to say there were more tracks, new tracks. So went down again with the dog. This time McCauley didn’t come but the fellow that worked for him handling the dogs came. But then, uh, again … although we flew down, we got there within 24 hours, but uh still the dog wasn’t able to pick up anything to follow. So, you know I appreciate Bob’s effort, but there wouldn’t have been any chance (John laughs) …

Larry– Has there ever been an instance where dogs have been any good tracking one of these things?

John – Not that I know of. They have hunting dogs for all of … they’re trained to track certain animals. Stay away from others. And there’s quite a bit of … well … stories they are, but uh suggest that dogs are instinctively afraid of these things.

Larry – When uh, Bob when you had this thing, you had your rifle drawn, is that correct?

Bob – Yes, I had it in my hand. I didn’t … what … Larry I don’t know, I should clarify exactly what drawn and what holdin it is. But there’s in my opinion there’s a, there’s somewhat of a difference there you know.

Larry – Okay.

Bob – Ah, to me, if you say drawn, that means bring it up to your shoulder and point it at whatever you intend to shoot. Well I never did that. I held the rifle in my hand, and the only reason that being is I knew if I had to make a shot I probably couldn’t make it off a horse jumping around, so that’s why I got off and stood on the ground.

Larry – Had you and Roger discussed … uh … if you had the opportunity that you would shoot one?

Bob – Well, we had kinda, in a way. And had not much … uh … cause when we talked about that, that was oh, probably a year or so before that and, and uh Roger said, “you know, uh so many people are shooting at these creatures an, and I think that’s the wrong thing to do”, and I said, “well if they’re human-type, definitely the wrong thing to do.” And we never said anything about it down there of course. But uh, I’m not one to be shooting at anything unless I feel that uh, you know if I’m out game hunting, naturally I, I used to hunt, but I haven’t hunted for quite a few years now. But, but I didn’t kill any threat at all, so I didn’t feel any, there was no need for me to even bring the rifle up to my shoulder. I just thought if I did, if the thing turned and came at me viciously then I would have shot. Yes.

Larry – Right.

Bob – There’s no question in my mind. You know, as big and powerful as it was, I knew that I wouldn’t have a chance on a horse, so I stepped down off the horse and just held the rifle in my hand.

Larry – Ha, have you ever read any of the uh analysis that stated that … how tall they think that that particular creature was?

Bob – One more time, Larry. I think I heard …

Larry – Uh, recently Bill Munns has done an analysis of the film. And John, correct me if I’m wrong on this, where I believe he’s decided that the creature was about seven six. Would you consider that accurate from your vantage point?

Bob – Well, yeah, I do. I, I never really thought about it that much until it’s been brought up many times, because the first time, of course when I first saw it, I was settin up on a horse. And uh, I never really even give that a whole lot of thought. It was just a big, big creature. Course I underestimated the height because of the bulk I’m sure, because I was asked shortly after that and, and course I’m not a very big guy, so I figured … they said well what do you think it weighed, 300 lbs or so? I said, well yeah, that, that probably is about right. Well then, you know the more I thought about this, and thought about the muscle mass of this thing, it’d have to weigh more than that because I realized it don’t take too big of a guy to weigh 250 lbs. So, this thing had so much more muscle mass than any human being that I’d ever seen. And so the height, I never gave it a whole lot of thought. But when I talked to Bill and the way he uh reasoned it was that different lenses and everything that made sense to me. And I thought that he said uh … 6 ft, 4 and ¾ or 6 ft, 5 and ¾, something like that … I’m not quite sure. Now I remember him saying it at the, at the Round up here in Yakima when I first met Bill, but I don’t remember the exact size. I know it was quite a bit over 7 foot.

Larry – How many times had, had, had you and Roger been in that area before, before that day?

Bob – Well, I’d never been there.

Larry – You’d never been there?

Bob – That was the first time. No I’d never been there before. And I don’t know whether, I think Roger had been down there somewhere in that area.

John – Yes he had.

Larry – John? John, was it Bob Titmus that uh, I don’t know how you should say uh, told him about that area? Or is that how it came about?

John – No, no, uh … Ivan Sanderson had written about it in True Magazine. And uh, that’s what got Roger interested. And he’d been down there in 1964. And got a uh, a very nice cast of a print. Not, not the one, the creature in the movie, but the original bigfoot. I don’t know how much time he spent down there but I know he was down there that time.

Larry – So how did Roger put it to you, Bob? Was it, “we’re gonna go out and look for bigfoot”?

Bob – Well, the reason that Roger came to my place was that somebody down there, and, and I don’t recall who he told me called him, and told him that there was fresh tracks in the, in the new dirt where they were starting to … they wanted to start building logging roads back in that area above the, up above where we camped, quite a ways up there. And they had put a tank in there, and I first thought it was a fuel tank but then somebody said later that it was a water tank. But anyway it was a tank that they’d put in there and when they came back to work on the Tuesday morning, I think they said, I think they put it in on a Friday evening on Labor Day weekend, and on the Tuesday morning when they come back to work there was three different sizes of footprints all around there in the dirt. And then when Roger came down here, uh and wanted me to take him down there, um I couldn’t get away from here right away though, cause I, I was working construction, and so it took me a while to get … uh get a leave from the job and get somebody to take care of my animals here, because I had quite a few animals at that time. Cows and horses. And my wife was working a full time job so she couldn’t do it, so I had to get somebody to take care of things here before I could take Roger down there.

Larry – Hmm. Well I’ll tell you what. It’s um … I could uh … I still have the … I have the Argosy Magazine that it appeared in. You know from the very beginning when this all came about and first crossed my attention I was just a child, it a, it’s a, it’s still a … did you think 40 years later people would still be talking about this? (Laughter – John) In your wildest imagination?

Bob – Are, are you talking to me or John?

Larry – Yeah. Well both of you.

Bob – If you’re talking to me, I’m trying to figure out 40 years later, why they’re trying to come up with these phony stories about it. You know, after they’ve seen the film and ... (Larry laughs) … and uh, there’s been so many people who will analyse it over and over and over, and, and Bill Munns did his deal on it and … and, and then there’s this fellow M.K. Davis that started out doing some things on it. He ended up doing some really really wild and bizarre things about it and so … uh it just amazes me that uh, that, that these people are still hammerin , hammerin this after 40 some years, you know. Why … just like one of the Russian scientists said, “what was wrong with them people over there in that part of the country?” (Larry laughs) “Can’t they understand or believe what they see or is there a reason why? Or they’re just making a few bucks? Or what’s the story on it?” Well I can’t answer that cause you know I don’t understand it either.

Larry – Well, John, if you don’t mind, fill us in on the … um … the craziness behind what’s supposably [sic] you …. (laughter)

Bob – Well I think maybe John should address that first if he feels like it and then

Larry – Yeah go ahead John …

Bob - … cause … I get a little bit wild about it, so.

Larry – You can be wild. This is the internet.

Bob – All … alright.

John – Well I … I … I had uh been hearing of this childish tale of slaughter of sasquatches. It’s pretty hard to take seriously, but I had … I never uh thought that it had, that it had in any way involved me, uh but then back in I guess in August, I got a letter or an email from Al Hodgson saying that I ought to know what a guy named David Paulides was saying about me. Uh, and he forwarded Paulides email, in which it said that, uh, Bob and I were … this is a direct quote, “harboring a very, very dark secret, really”. (Larry laughs) (John laughs) What in the he… and Al Hodgson, he knew it was nonsense. The gist of his message to me was could I do anything to stop this? So I did. But uh, in the process, Paulides denied ever having said anything like that, not knowing that I had a print. And they were uh, claiming that uh, Paulides was, was claiming, none of this came direct from, well, M.K. Davis, uh … what he says is, “I actually got my hands on a fairly old copy of the P/G film, full framed with segments on it nobody has seen. It’s in experts hands and many of our impressions are what actually occurred is playing out. I actually believe that John Green and Gimlin are harboring a very,very dark secret.”

Larry – Well what, the …

John – So, well I, I had had some dealings with Paulides. We’d been getting on fine and uh, this kind of set me back. I got in touch with him and uh finally it dawned on me that this fairly old copy they were talking about um was a copy of a patched together film that Rene and I had used when we were travelling showing the film. And where I’m supposed to be involved, um was actually on this trip with the tracking dog. And it turned out that nearly all of the evidence, not quite all, but nearly all of the evidence that M.K. Davis claimed proved that uh a whole family of sasquatches had been massacred and buried there uh came from Rene’s film when he and I were down there, nothing to do with the Patterson film at all, several weeks earlier, and not in the same place. And uh, so then they, they put great stress on the fact that uh the film showed that I was walking around with a big movie camera on my shoulder. And uh, the copies, the stills that I saw that they were demonstrating this with were very poor. And uh, there was something on my shoulder, and I couldn’t tell what it was. So finally I went and dug up this old film, the copy of the film that Rene and I used to show to see if I took my hand away from my shoulder, which I did, and all I was holding was a little 35 mm camera. And uh. But in the meantime, Paulides had claimed that his experts had identified this camera 99% sure what it was, presumed it was a Bolex, a huge thing anyway. They showed a picture of it. Now I don’t know whether Paulides ever saw the film at all, or whether he only saw images that M.K. Davis had made. Um, it’s hard to imagine that anybody with a police background who had the whole film wouldn’t have run it for a few more seconds and found out, you know, what it was I had on my shoulder. Well, for a matter of fact, it’s almost impossible to imagine anybody with any experience of investigating anything, taking this story seriously in the first place. And having done so, investigated it and not you know trying to defend it … well I get almost incoherent when I try to figure out what on earth they were up to. Anyway, that’s uh … you know … the red pool of blood which isn’t red and isn’t blood and the uh … the huge camera that I documented the slaughter with … oh yeah, and Bob Titmus is there with a rifle … well Bob Titmus was in Canada at the time. I don’t know exactly what he was doing cause I wasn’t in touch with him, but uh, he certainly wasn’t there. It just got totally and unbelievably out of hand. Uh, this film that uh M.K. Davis was supposed to find all these wonderful things in, uh, was actually just a little side trip that we made when uh the tracks we were really interested in were up on a mountain ridge. There were hundreds of them, but we heard that the same two individuals had made tracks down in the, in the creek bed as well. And so we went down there, but where the tracks had been, uh was around some trailers that some loggers had been living in during the week. And they would go out on the weekend and this particular weekend they came back, and these big tracks were around the trailers. So they hitched up and hauled the trailers out of there. So there were very very few tracks left. And so, you know, we were there, we searched around. I did get one good photograph of a track and a couple of bad casts of the poor tracks. But you know, it was a, just a very minor part of what we had done. And uh, here all of a sudden this is supposed to be part of the Patterson movie that has been hidden from the public all these years, because it contained the proof that uh Bob and Roger, well it started off Bob and Roger but later on the story’s taken various forms. The most extreme one I’ve heard is that Weyerhauser, who is a big logging outfit, but as far as I know had never been in that area, had hired Bob Titmus to kill all … all the sasquatches in Bluff Creek so the environmentalists wouldn’t stop them from logging there. It just … you know … (laughing) … then of course Rene and I and Bob Titmus went on for … well with them til the end of their lives and me for forty years, trying to find physical proof that these things exist when we’re supposed to know where several of them lie buried. I mean … (laughs)

Larry – What, what do you think Dahinden would have said if he was still around and this all came down? We probably couldn’t say it on the radio. (Laughter)

John – Yes … I, I (laughing) …

Larry – (Laughing) We’d have to be on at a later hour …

John - He’d have to finish spitting first.

(more laughing)

Larry – He was, he was special wasn’t he?

John – Yes. (Larry laughing) Not, not always in a good way, but definitely special (John laughing, Larry laughing)

Larry – So, so Bob um, when did you first find out about this, this story that was circulating around the world?

Bob – Well, you know I heard … are you talking to me now?

Larry – Yes

Bob – Anyway, I first heard about that and I thought , well, you know this must be another one of these wild stories that come out you know, and I didn’t pay much attention to it then. But then a good friend of mine called and I, you know … and he told me that back there, I think it was in Ohio or Pennsylvania or somewhere that M.K. Davis come up with these statements and, and I thought well what in the world’s wrong with this guy? He must of been drinking some pretty powerful stuff to make accusations like that. But it all came, I guess came about … course he called me, he was here in Yakima area, in the area somewhere, him and a gentleman named Don Munro, I think it’s Don Munro, uh yes, it’s not Bob Munro it’s Don Munro. And he wanted to meet me and show me old enhancements that he’d done, he said, to the film footage. So I said, “Okay.” Well I, I had a real bad hernia (unintelligible)… it was pooched out there like a soft ball in my left groin. So I said, “Yeah, I can meet you out here at a little place, a little restaurant thing called Ranchhouse Restaurant about a mile away from my residence and if you guys wanna meet me there I’ll, I’ll look at the film that you’ve got there and you can tell me what you got.” Well uh we went in this little restaurant. And of course I know the people, they’re my neighbors. And I eat there quite often. I asked the little gal, I said, “Is it okay if we set up the projector, uh, uh, and show this film back here in this little room?” Kind of off to one side, which it had been used for a conference room at times. It wasn’t very big. She said, “Yeah, Bob, it’s okay” but she said, “how long will it be?” And I … I asked him, “Hey Davis, how long will it take?” And he said, “Oh not very long.” So she said, “Okay.” So we set there and it kinda just went on and on and on. He had all this red in the film and, and so finally we ordered something to eat. I said, well you know we better order something to eat cause you know this little restaurant’s not used to people just settin around in here. It’s not a very big place anyway. So, uh, we ordered and of course M.K. was busy with trying to explain all this stuff about the film, and I was sittin there hurtin with this hernia, you know. So he said to me, “Do you see that red there in the corner?” And I said, “Well yes I see that red.” And about that time this old hernia … so I kinda pushed down on it, put, put my head down. Well come to find out that he, his statement was that when he showed me that red, uh, I cringed and just showed guilt that I’d shot all these. He didn’t say nothing about me shooting them. I’da set him straight right there or probably grabbed him by the nap of the neck, even with a hernia and threw him out the front door. (Larry laughing) Course I’m not a violent person, but that would get my dander up pretty good you see. (Larry laughing) So anyway, this Munro sat there and kinda grinned. And I didn’t think anything about it until I heard about what he come up with this story. Then shortly after that I got a guy by the name of Joe Beelart which I had met a few years ago and didn’t trust all that much anyway, cause he lied to me about some pictures, and he sent me a, uh uh, I think it’s twelve, fourteen pages of all of the, the dark secrets that I’ve been harboring for 42 years and, and I looked at that and uh I wrote some pretty nasty words on it and sent it back to him. I thought, these guys are loony tunes, you know. What in the world has happened in this deal. They’re, they’re nuts. They’re completely insane. And … and M.K. Davis is the head of the whole darn thing. And so I don’t, I didn’t really know how far it went. I kinda left it. So I called this M.K. Davis and I asked him, I said, “What in the world was wrong with you? Did, did you go off the deep end?” And he said, oh he started kind of apologizing to me about it and said, “Well that wasn’t supposed to get out.” Well I said, “it’s supposed to be in confidence.” I said, “In confidence, with 300 people listening to ya?” And he said, “Well it wasn’t supposed to be that way.” He said, “Well I’m just gonna get completely out of it.” He said, “Is it upsetting you?” I said, “It’s not only upsetting me,” I said, “When I first heard about this, you were just doggone lucky you weren’t standing in front of me, mister.” (Larry laughing) And you know, like I said, I’m not a violent person, but I can get my dander up a little bit. And so this was kind of went on, and he said, “I’m gonna get out of it.” Well he lied to me too, again, so he’s just turned around from what I understand now from different people that he got this David Paulides into it and some other people too. Uh, some lady down south, or something. I’m, I’m not even sure how, how far it’s all gone. Then when I heard about them trying to say that John and Rene and, and we were all down there together, and I thought, they’re nuttier than … they’re completely insane. There was nobody down there. There was Roger and I. And uh, you know it was a different time of the year. If they’d of just looked at the film they could tell that when John and Rene was down there, it was summertime. And when Roger and I was down there the leaves were turning red. It was fall. It was the last part of October. Just you know, the 20th of October. So then it started getting me a little bit upset and a little riled. Then I settled down and figured, oh well, what the heck. Nobody’s gonna believe that anyway. Well the next thing I know, this David Paulides is a … you know, talking about it, and the other person, and this Joe Beelart. And I didn’t know who all else, because I, I just kind of let it go on down the road a little bit, you know. So then I, I thought, dadgumit. And I got to talk to John a little bit about it, and I thought, gee whiz, this thing is going … it’s like a … a wild fire. And these crazy people, well people are actually believing them. So that’s, then I cooled back down and figured oh well, the heck of it. The heck with this. Oh let em have their fun. Whatever. But as long as they just uh the people leave me out of it, you know. I get these calls saying M.K. Davis said this. And David Paulides said this. And I said, well they’re nuts. They’re loony tunes.

John – You, you, you missed the proof of it all though Bob. There’s proof that we were both there together. Because they’ve got a picture in which there’s a … what they have identified as a pile of horse shit (laughter) in one of Rene’s pictures. So that proves that you were there, cause there was a horse there. (more laughter)

Bob – (Laughing) Oh, they couldn’t identify horse shit from a rock, you know. (More laughter)

John – Well, I (restraining his laughter) … I’m sorry to say that that’s exactly what they did. Bill Miller … uh … worked on that picture a little bit and discovered that the horse shit had square edges. (more laughter from all)

Bob – And I s’pose I hired a helicopter to come down with that backhoe, to drop that backhoe in there and dig a hole to bury them carcasses in. Didn’t I? Uh, that’s what they claim …

John – I haven’t heard that one, but I heard some wonderful stories.

Larry – Well, well wouldn’t have uh, uh, uh, Bob Heironius been in that pile he had to bury? (All laughing)

John - Hey that was a real mistake. You should have buried him at the time. (All laughing)

Bob – That’s right, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, [unintelligable]. But anyway … it, it received … you know, you know, it’s not a co … it was comical at the beginning, but it’s, it’s kinda getting past that now, you know. When I heard that they had some dingbat down in Florida trying to get a prosecutor to come up and prosecute me for, for massacring five bigfoot down there and burying them. So I thought, well now, wait a minute. You know, if these people are actually are uh making people believe this enough that they’re trying to do that, I said, you know, I’m starting to take this thing serious. Then I figured, if there’s a prosecutor dumb enough to do that, then let him come on. I’ll take care of it. (Larry laughs)

Larry – Yeah, they have a whole different justice system in Yakima, don’t they.

Bob – (Laughs) We call it cowboy justice up here, you know. (Larry laughs) And I won’t even mention how it’s handled. They’ve seen old western movies. They already know how it’s handled.

Larry – So well, you know, this kind of, you know for a long time, when after the National Geographic special, when Bob, you weren’t talking they said (laughing) …

Larry - … about a …

Bob – Yeah

Larry - … the guy in the …

Bob – Yeah, I …

Larry – Bob Gimlin’s not talking .. (Laughing)

Bob – Well, yeah, they said uh, this is what they said. They said, “Bob Gimlin refuses to give interviews anymore. He lives, he lives in seclusion back in the mountains and refuses to give interviews.” I’ve lived the same place I always have lived for 40 some years, worked at the … well I didn’t work the same job, but I worked right here in Yakima. Anytime anybody could talk to me. And I was always … when people would call me on the phone I’d talk to em. Whatever, you know um, whatever they asked me I’d try to be, you know, I’d try to be civil about everything. And uh … but then they started coming out with these kind of accusations that, you know I thought … you know, these people are all loony tunes. You know, they just, they don’t know where to stop. But, you know I guess human beings are inclined to wanna have some, what my wife calls it, fifteen minutes of fame so …

Larry – Yeah

Bob - … they come up with any kind of a wild and crazy story that they might get a little recognition from, is my opinion of what’s going on. You know I don’t understand … uh … if they got any common sense, why did they even come up with such crazy, bizarre stuff?

Larry – Well, it’s like I’ve said in, in my lectures. When we discuss the film, that, that … okay, let’s just say that you and Roger did decide to film a suit. Let’s just say that you get the suit done, and you’re both looking at it and going, that suit looks pretty good, but we need to put a pair of boobs on it. (All laugh)

Bob – (Laughing) Yep.

Larry – I’ll be right there. This is the evidence that (laughing) … that’s a good lookin set but it needs some mammary glands.

Bob – Now there you go … yes sir, yep.

Larry – Did you notice that when you saw it that day, or was it after the fact?

Bob – Well, all I noticed something, but I wasn’t sure of what it was. You know I never had that in mind anyway. I just uh, cause I didn’t even know what to expect. When I did see it, I had no idea what really to expect. All I’d heard about is what people had talked to me about were mainly what Roger had talked to me about, because whenever I had an opportunity to see Roger, he lived quite a little ways away from me and, and about the only time I’d see Roger was when I was riding close and heading up into the hills away from here, and I’d pass his place and course I knew Roger quite well from earlier days you know. And so I’d stop and say hello. Cause I knew he’d been sick, real bad sick. And I’d stop to see how he was doing. And he’d say, “Well Bob, let me turn my horse in and go with you and ride.” And I’d say, “Well okay. Shall we go up and get your horse and we’ll load it and we’ll go?” And then us fellas, we’d stay out for over a weekend and we’d sit around the campfire and he’d have these little cassette recorders, battery powered cassette recorders. And he’d play me these testimonials that different people had talked to him about, you know. And he also showed me plaster casts. So you know, I, I said, well yeah, that’s okay Rog. I don’t … I’m not really that much interested in it but if you are, then that’s okay. I’ve nothing to do but listen around a campfire at night, you know. So, so he did get me interested in it somewhat. And then he come out with his first book. And, and, and I had done some tracking for him earlier. He was um, was attempting to make a documentary of some type to generate enough funds to go on an expedition. And I never did know for sure where he planned on going or anything. But, so I helped him some with that, and that’s what that uh Argosy cover picture is. Because I showed Appaloosa horses at the horse shows at that time, and I did wear some costumes. And uh, and that’s what that was, on that uh, on that front page of Argosy magazine.

Larry – Wow. Well I’ll tell you I, I found my copy in a garage sale. And I cherish it very much.

Bob – Well, yeah. If it’s in good shape Larry, you better hang onto it because now, you know there’s, there’s, there’re not any more of them around, I mean unless you happen to be lucky enough to find one. I happened to get one here, well I think I had one and then a fellow up here gave me one, two or three years ago with some other stuff. And the same way with Roger’s books … you know if you happen to have one of those. Right now they’re pretty scarce and pretty hard to come by.

Larry – John, who do you think right now are the people in the research field on bigfoot that, that are the ones, the top, the top people?

Bob – Uh On, one more time, I didn’t hear what you said.

Larry – I, I was wondering, uh what do you think, who do you think are the top people right now doing research on this … right now between John …

Bob – Well I … I don’t know a lot of em, but I’d say that uh, you know Dr. Meldrum is probably my first thought you know that comes up, and of course Bill Munns did a lot of research on the film footage itself. And uh, you know, just uh people in that category that just spend the time doing it, you know, is the ones that … that Dr. Meldrum comes to my mind first. And then there’s a few others down the line there that uh, that I think, you know is doing quite a bit of research. There’s a gentleman up here, uh by the name of Colonel Jones is, is … uh he goes up to an area called uh, uh, Bumping Lake area which has been known to have uh bigfoot early years ago. They had evidence that they existed in that area. And there’s been lots of activity up there so. He goes up there with a group of whatever, whoever wants to show up, you know, at different times. And then there’s people off at California that uh Bobo and Tom Yamarone and that group down there. They’re out as often as they can get out I think. And I talk to them quite often. And, and they’re doing quite a bit of research. And so you know uh all up and down the west coast here there’s quite a bit of research going on. And I don’t know all of them.

Larry – Would you agree with that John? Who do you think right now is the, the people doing the good stuff?

John – Well there are so many people involved now that I certainly can’t keep track of who’s doing what. Uh, Matt Moneymaker certainly is right up at the top there with the website and so on that uh … we used to uh think we were doing well if we rounded up from all sources a hundred reports in a year. And uh his Bigfoot Field Researchers website probably gets ten times that in, just on that one site. So, you know that’s one type of research. And uh there’s all sorts of people um again a lot of them in the BFRO using heat sensing and uh trail cameras, all sorts of high tech equipment, which by the way is uh what uh George Schaller advised us we should be doing. So these people are doing it. But you know when it comes right down to it, in the end somebody’s gotta shoot one or hit it with a car or at least find a dead one or all this effort is really not producing anything.

Larry – That’s right. Well I want to tell both of you, all week when we were going to do this, that I received so many emails. And Bob and John, you do not have any idea how loved and respected you are in this field. The amount of emails that I received, they just said, this is fantastic. And I couldn’t thank you enough for coming on tonight. This has been absolutely wonderful. I think anyone interested in this, youngsters that are just starting to read your books and so forth, and people who have been around it for many, many years like myself. Uh, guys, tonight was just a complete pleasure.

Bob – Well thank you very much. It’s sure a pleasure to hear John talk. And I wish him well. And I neglect to call him as often as I should and like to and I just get busy and don’t do it. But I’m not really, I don’t call a whole lot anyway, but thanks again.

John – No, I’m the telephone person.

Larry - (Laughs) Well I am, I bug you guys all the time. I admit it. Well, it’s a pleasure. We want to thank all of our listeners. Uh, I know we had a load tonight, because everybody was very excited. Next week we’re going to have quite an amazing eye witness on bigfoot from the state of Washington. You want to tune in. This is Larry Battson, this is Blogtalk radio. We’d like to thank John Green, Robert Gimlin. And uh we’ll be back next Thursday, 11 o’clock eastern standard time. And uh, this is Blogtalk radio. This is Larry Battson’s Wild World.

[Susan]

Thanks very much, Pat!

I really appreciate you typing all that up so we could read it. Very interesting stuff!

[windtalker]

Much appreciated Miss Pat.

[Pat B.]

You're welcome. I thought it was quite a good interview. I know it's long to read ... the audio interview is much more interesting because you hear the inflections in their voices, and how this wild theory affected them. Their reactions are priceless. They think these people are "looney tunes", wonder what they've been drinking, think they've gone insane, think it's spreading like a "wild fire". Can't understand it.

In fact, one of the reasons I found the interview so fascinating was that it perfectly illustrated the insanity that has lately been pervading this "community", and showed how these two men who have been around this a long time, and are considered to be decent, credible people, have been slandered, and how they've reacted to it.

I really encourage people to listen to the audio interview. It's far better than reading the whole dry interview.



But I have to say, the parallels to what's been happening with mudslinging and bashing of the Michigan Recording Project are obvious. It's like a collective insanity has recently gripped the bigfooting world, and the inmates are now running the asylum. This applies not only to the wackiness that is being levelled at us, but also to the moronic theories of sasquatch massacres that, I might add, some upstanding citizens of this bf world have strangely embraced and accepted without any proof beyond the wild ramblings of a man who has more theories than fingers and toes.

Suddenly, with the introduction of a few oddballs into this field, the level of civility has dropped into a bottomless pit. And now anything goes. Anything that can be thought up in their evil little minds can be printed. Anything is fair game ... whatever their brains seize upon in the next moment can and will be thrown around for endless discussion, whether it has any basis in truth or not. Massacre at Bluff Creek? Uh, yeah ... okay ... that sounds good enough to get me some infamy ... it'll make me a star, don'cha know?

[windtalker]

It's kind of a double edged sword.
If someone makes a claim that they saw a "squatch with a bow in it's hair skipping through the woods chanting "Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!" 0r "Follow the yellow brick road.", naturally they'll be attacked.
That kind of opens the door for anyone to be attacked no matter what they may claim or try and submit as evidence.
It isn't right that common sense material is attacked, but it's kind of hard to justify one person/group being attacked yet folks are expected to keep their mouth shut to someone else.
I myself dunno the answer as I'll speak up when my bullshit detector has reached the high level mark as well as comment on someone or something that I think is legit.
As for the interview, if anyone believes someone can show a bullet hole or that Patty was shot from enhanced stills of the film, they're a gullible, uninformed idiot that needs to keep their mouth shut.
See what I mean?
Just live with it, fight back if you want and take comfort that there are those out there that pretty much know who is on the up and up and who isn't.
Works for me.
Then again I know for fact all 'squatch does is wander around humming "Somewhere over the rainbow."